المجد لله في العلى وعلى الأرض السلام للحائزين رضاه

[سليمان]

أما من ناحية المعنى اللاهوتي فقد كنت دائماً أتساءل عن معنى هذه العبارة قبل أن أعرف أن ترجمتها خاطئة، فالعقيدة المسيحية ليست مبنية على العبارات الطنانة الفارغة بل على الحقيقة، ومجيء المسيح بالحقيقة لم يحقق السلام على الأرض فقد حصلت آلاف الحروب بعد نشوء المسيحية ومنها حروب كثيرة بسبب الدين، لذلك عبارة “على الأرض السلام” غير صحيحة، والمسيح نفسه يؤكد على هذا فهو الذي يقول “أتظنون أني جئت لألقي السلام على الأرض؟ أقول لكم : لا، بل الخلاف” (لوقا 12 : 51) فكثيرون لا يقبلون الحق ولذلك ستظهر كثير من الحروب نتيجة رغبة الرب في إبقاء كلمة الحق على الأرض ولن يسود السلام. وكذلك من ناحية ثانية كان ومازال كثير من الناس بل جميع الناس في بعض الأوقات على الأقل لا يشعرون بالمسرة مما يؤكد أن الترجمة القديمة هي خاطئة ليس فقط لغوياً بل لاهوتياً أيضاً.

In peace let us pray to the Lord

Lord have mercy

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Beloved in Christ, brother Sari

On the contrary, I have understood precisely the written thesis. Allow me to explain further
Let us examine the essence and spirit of the verse
at hand , in two parts
First: Peace
Second: Good Will or Gladness or Joyfulness or the Pleasantry of the Lord etc
The Peace (Everlasting, Perpetual and Devine) in Luke 2:14 pertain to the reconciliation between Man and God
look at further details in the sermon I have attached below
On the other hand, the Peace (Intermittent and Man made by his own free will, when he chooses) that Jesus spoke of in Luke 12:51
It deals with -conflict resolution- in the constant struggle amongst Men and Evil
Given the aforementioned above, it is a theological anathema to draw analogous between the two verses; thus, supplanting the first by the latter
I will stop here and delve into the second part with your blessing
In Christ I remain His sinful-loyal servant
And your loving brother
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The Feast of the Nativity of Christ is a celebration of
the Incarnation of the Eternal Word, the Son of God and the fact that through this incarnation the world is transfigured and restored. With the appearance of God the world enters upon a new beginning and takes on a new direction. In incarnation, God became real man to identify with His creation, to save His creation and to divinize humanity and the universe
St. Irenaeus, a Father of the Church in the 3rd century, speaks of the Incarnation as "the necessary means to bring about salvation that we human beings would never have attained by our own power. The Word of God became human in order that we might become God though God’s graceful, divine life. He comes to restore the likeness of God in us." He comes to show us the way to the Father and to restore humanity born bankrupt in a "bank world". Humanity started in Paradise - now, with the coming of Christ, Paradise is in humanity. When we accept the person of Jesus Christ and His self-revelation, the whole wealth and beauty of God becomes ours. We have the potential to rise high above our own limitations to the light and life of God
When we wonder in awe at this event beyond our wildest imaginings, we must marvel at the Divine pedagogy of God, to condescend out of love for our salvation to choose to send His only begotten Son to take on human flesh as the psychological means to educate humanity. .Beyond all the seasonal exhortations of loving, giving, and forgiveness, etc., the Nativity of the Son of God means that man can now have a relationship with God. We cannot have a relationship with an abstract entity. When God decided to show us His face, so that we could see Him in person and not be bewildered by perceiving the impossible to perceive, He covered His glory with an appearance we can approach and understand: He became man. St. Paul calls this generous attitude kenosis (emptiness) also "condescension". St. John Chrysostom says,"The condescension of God is when God does not appear as He really is, but according to the capacity of the one who seeks to contemplate Him."

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In a relationship we can experience the otherness of the person we are relating to. So, we know God only by being united to Jesus Christ, by seeing His face, by experiencing Him in our whole being, person-to-person.

We communicate with and experience others when they reveal themselves to us and in turn we reciprocate with the revelation of ourselves. Experience is cumulative. We know God only by being united to Jesus Christ. The glory of God was revealed and made manifest in a face that invites and reveals. Divinity and humanity were united in the Incarnation, and now they appear without separation in the face of the One Divine Person of Jesus Christ. " Life was made visible. . . and we saw it."(1Jn1:1-2) Heaven and earth are now partners in a unique drama of a sublime movement of relationship. When our humanity meets the humanity of Jesus Christ, the God-made-man, we touch and meet God, Father-Son-Spirit. When His revelation of Himself is so accepted, the receiver becomes richer with all the riches of the Person revealed. God’s revelation is regulated with patient love and by the measure of our own spiritual development.

The church invites us and all humanity to rejoice. The liturgy overflows with joyous praise designed to make us aware of the coming of God, who at the moment of His birth radiates goodness and love. All of creation, even mountains and valleys are equally invited "to share in the joy of the feast" because it is a celebration of God’s love and care for his creation. We should feel ourselves transformed and alive with new life which we and the whole of creation share.

We, upon hearing these exhortations should be filled with joy and peace because we can "see", "hear", and "touch" the reality and truth of our divinization. We should realize that we are a product of an infinite divine love, that we are immersed in divinity in our present life, that we can experience God through Jesus Christ, and that our final destiny is God Himself.

[ساري]

the peace (everlasting, perpetual and devine) in luke 2:14 pertain to the reconciliation between man and god
look at further details in the sermon i have attached below
on the other hand, the peace (intermittent and man made by his own free will, when he chooses) that jesus spoke of in luke 12:51
it deals with -conflict resolution- in the constant struggle amongst men and evil
given the aforementioned above, it is a theological anathema to draw analogous between the two verses; thus, supplanting the first by the latter

أخي سليمان تقول أن كلمة السلام في لوقا 21:51 (المجد لله في العلى وعلى الأرض السلام للحائزين رضاه ) المقصود بها السلام والمصالحة بين الله والإنسان وهذا أمر لا أخالفك فيه كل ما قلته أنا هو أنها لا تعني السلام بالمعنى العالمي أي بالتحديد إنهاء الصراعات والحروب بين الناس بشكل قاطع وإلا لكان كلام الملائكة كذباً ( حاشا ) لأن الصراعات والحروب لم تنته بمجيء المسيح.

كذلك تقول أن الكلام الوارد في لوقا 21 : 51 ( أتظنون أني جئت لألقي السلام على الأرض؟ أقول لكم : لا، بل الخلاف ) المقصود به الصراع المستمر بين الإنسان والشيطان، هذا تفسير جميل ولكنه تأويلي وليس هو المقصود تماماً في هذا المقطع من كلام الرب.

إذا قرأنا النص كاملا " يخالف الأب ابنه والابن أباه والأم بنتها والبنت أمها والحماه كنتها والكنة حماتها" ( لوقا 12 : 53 ) فهل المقصود هنا الصراع بين الإنسان والشيطان؟ أو ما ورد أيضاً في متى 10 : 34 - 36 "لا تظنوا أني جئت لأحمل السلام إلى العالم، ما جئت لأحمل سلاماً بل سيفاً، جئت لأفرق بين الابن وأبيه، والبنت وأمها والكنة وحماتها ويكون أعداء الإنسان أهل بيته " فهل يتكلم الرب هنا عن الصراع بين الإنسان والشيطان؟ لا بل بين الناس فكم من مسيحي اضطر لأن يخالف أهله أو زوجه أو أولاده من أجل المسيح؟ كما من شهيد وشهيدة قتل على يد أهله؟

ليس هدف التجسد السلام بالمعنى العالمي ( إنهاء الحروب والصراعاتع ) بل ربما كان مجيء المسيح سبباً لمشاكل أكثر على الأرض فلو لم يأتي المسيح هل كان اليهود ليرجمون من صار منهم مسيحياً ويقتلونهم؟ هل كان الرومان ليقوموا بإحراق المسيحيين وذبحهم؟ هل كان الملحدون في روسيا ليقوموا بكل حروبهم وفظاعاتهم؟ هل كان الصهاينة ليقوموا بكل هذه الحروب للسيطرة على القدس والتحضير لمجيء مسيحهم الدجال؟ ...الخ

وكذلك أنا لم أستعمل ماجاء في الاصحاح 12 من لوقا لأنفي المعنى الوارد في في الاصحاح الثاني بل بالعكس قلت أن السلام الوارد في الاصحاح الثاني غير السلام الوارد في الاصحاح 12، الأول يعني السلام القلبي والمصالحة مع الله أما الثاني فيعني السلام بالمعنى العالمي ( إنهاء الصراعات ).

صل لأجلي