In the previous debate, the first dialogue took place with Father Serenus regarding controlling thought, and we saw the role of demons in dispersing thought. The father spoke about the power of Satan and his capabilities, but he will not be able to defeat the believer who is attached to God, because the one who is with us is greater than the one who is against us. As for this dialogue, which contains 25 chapters, he spoke about it About the existence of various ranks among demons.
Chapter 1: Talk about it Honored Father Serenus (Chapter 1)
Chapter 2: Germanius asked On the origin of the very diverse forces resistant to manAnd about the differences between them, as the Apostle Paul says: “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places” (Ephesians 6:12). “Neither angels nor principalities nor powers nor any other creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8:38, 39). He also asks: Where did all this envy-filled hostility against us come from? Can we believe that these forces were created by the Lord for this purpose, that is, to fight against humans with these ranks that they have?
Chapter 3: Father Serenus replied that what was mentioned in this regard in the Bible is a hidden secret that requires study and diligence. The Word of God is food that must be cooked in order to be eaten. The word of God has the literal apparent meaning, as well as the hidden meaning (Chapter 4).
Chapter 6: confirms that God did not create anything evil, but everything He created is very good (Genesis 1:31).
Chapter 7: Explain that God created the heavenly creatures before He created the world. “When the stars were made together, the angels praised me with a loud voice” (Job 7:38 LXX). The angels were present at the beginning of the creation of the world, praising Him for the works He created for the world visible to us.
The Evangelist John says: “All things were made by him, and without him nothing was made that was made” (John 1:3), and the Apostle Paul enumerates creation, saying: “For by him (in Christ) all things were created, that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible.” It is seen, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through him and for him” (Colossians 1:16).
Chapter 8: He talked about the fall of Satan and his angels, and the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah lamented them:
“O son of Adam, raise your eulogy for the king of Tire and say to him:
Thus says the Lord God: You are the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect beauty.
I was in God's paradise.
Every precious stone, your curtain is red agate, yellow sapphire, chalcedony, aquamarine, onyx, jasper, sapphire, amber, emerald, and gold.
They created in you the workmanship of the stones and their inlay on the day you were created.
You are the spread out cherub that covers you, and I set you up.
On God's holy mountain you were.
I walked among the stones of fire.
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created until unrighteousness was found in you.
With the abundance of your trade they filled you with injustice, and you sinned.
So I will cast you from the mountain of God, and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from among the stones of fire.
Your heart has been lifted up for your joy.
I corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor.
I will cast you to the ground and make you appear before kings so that they may look upon you.
You have defiled your sanctuaries through the multitude of your iniquities through the violence of your trade” (Ezekiel 28:11-18).
Isaiah says about another demon:
“How did you fall from the sky, Zahra, daughter of the morning?!
How were you cut down to the ground, O conqueror of nations?!
And you said in your heart:
I will ascend into the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God,
And I will sit on the mountain of assembly in the farthest parts of the north.
I rise above the heights of the clouds,
I will become like the Most High” (Isaiah 14:12-14).
The Bible tells us that Satan did not fall alone from his blessed state, but rather the dragon fell and a third with him Planets (Rev. 4:12).
More clearly, one of the apostles says: “And the angels who did not keep their government, but left their dwelling place, are kept under eternal chains under darkness until the judgment of the great day” (Jude 6).
This also has been said to us: “But you will die like men and fall like one of the princes” (Psalm 80:7). To whom does this statement that many presidents have fallen apply?
be seen Father Serenus That the rulers are angels, who fell from their various ranks from their heavenly positions as a result of their evil, and that they also carried ranks according to the degree of their evil. It is as if they had various ranks in their angelic lives, and in their fall they attained opposite ranks according to the degree of their evil.
F 9: Germanius says that they used to believe that envy was the cause of Satan's fall and the beginning of his fall, because of which he was expelled from the heavenly places, and that When Adam and Eve were deceived by fraud.
P10: Father Serenus explained that it is clear from the Book of Genesis that Satan's fall and destruction began before this deception. It was said about the serpent (Satan) that he is wiser than all the animals of the earth, and the word “wisest” in Hebrew means “smartest.” He was more deceitful not than the angels, because they are not deceitful, nor than men, because they had not yet been created (but rather than his fallen angels with him). This deception, which contains pride, came down to him to bear the name “the serpent,” and to carry envy.
He is no longer able to walk, but rather crawl, nor to look up, but rather sticks to the ground and crawls on it, and descends to crawl on his stomach and eat dusty food, that is, the works of sins. Thus, he carries the spirit of hostility against all of creation. Although this enmity prompted him to deceive Adam and Eve, but as Father Serenus says, it is for our benefit, and this disagreement is for our benefit, so humans stand on guard against him as a dangerous enemy, and he is no longer able to harm us by deceiving us by showing friendship with us.
Here I can, through the words of this father, draw a comparison between... Man’s attachment to the ancient serpent Satan and his attachment to Jesus Christ:
· There is a conflict between Jesus Christ, the Word of God, and Satan, each of whom wants to bring the person to himself and give him what he has.
· Man’s attachment to Satan makes him resemble the serpent, who is unable to walk on the divine, royal path, but rather crawls on the earth, so man becomes dust. As for adhering to Jesus Christ, the true path, He gives us the wings of the Holy Spirit so that the soul can take off like a dove and fly to heaven. Thus, the soul sits as in the heavenly places and enjoys heavenly citizenship.
· Man’s attachment to Satan makes him crawl on his stomach and eat dirt, and turns his stomach into a god, as the Bible says: “Their gods are their stomachs.” Man lives to eat, and does not eat in order to live. Man feeds with Satan on sin as his inner food. As for the Lord Christ, he gives us his body and blood as food and drink so that we can enjoy eternal life. The Lord Christ, “divine righteousness,” becomes food for the soul that feeds on Him, while food for the body is a necessity for life.
· A person’s attachment to Satan pours into him his spirit, which is the spirit of enmity, while his attachment to Jesus Christ pours into him his spirit, which is the spirit of love and friendship on an eternal level.
F11: If the deceiver, Satan, falls under the punishment and judgment he deserves, then whoever accepts deception will not be exempt from punishment, even if his punishment is lighter than the punishment to which the deceiver himself falls.
The Messenger says that it was Eve, not Adam, who was deceived, but that Adam accepted her advice. Therefore, it is appropriate for us to beware of all evil advice, which brings punishment on the one who gave it and who accepted it.
F12: Devils fans And the disturbances it raises in our lives.
Father Serenus sees that the atmosphere between the earth and the sky is crowded with masses of light spirits, flying neither quietly nor in a state of lethargy.
It is God's great providence that He concealed this sight from human eyes. Because if he opened a person's eyes to see this scene, he would fall into a state of extreme terror and collapse, his life would be ruined day by day, and he would be unable to carry out his daily work and achieve his mission. The vision makes him enter into a direct, visible relationship during which he sees at every moment the evil they practice, which may push a person to make a mistake.
Chapter 13: The struggle of demons is not only against man, but... Even against each other, they won't They stop quarrels and conflicts because of the evil they carry.
In Daniel 10:12-14 we see the archangel Michael resisting the ruler of the Persians for 21 days in order to protect Daniel from him. He also talks about a ruler of the Greeks... and that Satan, who is known as the Persians, struggles not only against the children of God, but also against Satan, who is known as the Greeks. This, in Father Serenus’ opinion, is the secret of the ongoing conflicts between nations in a spirit of unending envy. It is conflicts between demons and each other that pit nations against each other.
Chapter 14: How did the spiritual forces of evil obtain the titles of forces and chiefships?
Because it rules and controls different nations, and has its influence on lower spirits and demons, the Gospels testified to the existence of “Legion.”
It was not possible to call them lords unless there were those who practiced lordship over them.
They do not claim powers and authorities unless they have someone to exercise this authority over them.
The Pharisees, in their blasphemy against Jesus Christ, said: “By Beelzebub, the prince of demons, he casts out demons” (Luke 11:15), and the demons were also called: “the world’s rulers of darkness” (Ephesians 6:12), and one of them was called: “the prince of this world” (John 14:30). . Blessed Paul speaks about these principalities and powers, and how their authority over this world will be abolished when everyone submits to the Lord Christ. He says: “When the kingdom is handed over to God the Father, when will he abolish all principality and all authority and all power” (1 Corinthians 15:24).
Chapter 15: Not without reason the heavenly holy forces bore the titles of angels and archangels.
Let's callAngelsIt means “messengers,” because their job is to carry divine messages.
And they calledArchangels“Because they have authority over the angels.
And the"Sultans“Because they have authority over certain people.
And the"Presidencies“For they have persons who are rulers over them.
And the"Thrones“Because they are very close to God, castrated, and attached to Him, the divine greatness rests in them as in a divine throne in a way as if someone were leaning on them.
Chapter 16: We realize the submission of demons to their leaders not only from what is stated in the Holy Bible (Luke 11:19), but we also see it through the various experiences of the saints..
Father Serenus told the story of one of the brothers (monks). While he was on a trip in that wilderness, he found a cave, so he stopped there and performed his evening prayer there, praising the Psalms. After praying, he sat down before eating and his body was exhausted. He saw countless groups of demons gathered together from all sides. They came as countless crowds in a long line, some ahead of others, others following their chief, who was taller and more fearsome than them. A throne was placed on it, with a seat of judgment high above it, and he began to examine the deeds of each one of them.
If someone says that he has not yet been able to defeat his competitors, he is ordered to be expelled in disgrace for being lazy and inactive, and he is reprimanded with extreme anger because he has wasted a long time and that his work has not yielded results.
As for those who say that they deceived their competitors, the president praises them and glorifies them above all as brave wrestlers and that they have become famous models before the rest.
Among these the most evil of spirits appeared and presented himself to narrate his great triumph. He mentioned a very well-known monk who, after struggling against him for 15 years, finally overcame him tonight with the sin of adultery with a consecrated girl, and that he had seduced her in order to marry her. Then there were loud cries of joy, and he received great praise from the prince of darkness, and great honors were bestowed upon him.
When daylight came, all the demons disappeared from before the brother’s eyes, and he was skeptical about the unclean spirits, remembering the words of the Gospel: “He does not abide in the truth, because there is no truth in it. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44). ).
The brother continued on his way to Balsam, where he knew that this man lived there, the one whom the evil spirit spoke of as having destroyed him, as the brother was very well known to him. When he asked about him, he found that he had actually left his monastery that night and fallen into his sin with the girl mentioned above.
Chapter 17Father Serenus says:
[The Bible testifies to the existence of two angels, one good and one evil, who are close to each one of us. The Savior says about the good angel“Do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven” (Matthew 18:10). And also: “The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him and delivers them” (Psalm 34:7). And also what was said in the Acts of the Apostles about Peter: “It is his angel” (Acts 12:15).
As for the existence of both types of angels, this shepherd’s book teaches us in a complete way[1].
If we think about the one who attacked the blessed Job, we learn that he was planning against him, but he was never able to lure him into sin, so he was asking for authority from the Lord, as he was tied not to the virtue of (Job), but to the protection of the Lord that always protected him.
It was also said about Judah: “Let Satan stand at his right hand” (Psalm 19:6).]
Chapter 18: The degrees of evil present in hostile spirits as revealed in the case of two philosophers.
He talked about the example of two philosophers who had great experience in witchcraft with laziness, audacity, and evil. They tried to harm Blessed Anthony, and when they could not, they tried to remove him from his cell with the illusions of magic and the lies of demons. They incited evil spirits full of violence against him, to attack him out of envy because he was a servant of God. When they were not even able to approach him, as he was marking his chest and forehead with the sign of the cross, devoting his time to prayers and supplications, the demons returned to those who directed them. The two magicians sent more evil evil spirits, and when they returned disappointed, they did not fulfill their mission. They sent those more powerful to resist the victorious soldier of Christ, and they were unable to do anything against him.
That's all the tricks Plans and magical arts are useful in confirming the great appreciation for the work of ChristiansEven these violent and domineering imaginations that thought they were able to obscure the sun and the moon when they turned towards Blessed Anthony were unable to harm him, nor to withdraw him from his monastery for a single moment.
Chapter 19: Demons will not be able to overcome humans unless they first possess their minds.
The father continued his speech by saying:
[As the two philosophers were astonished, they immediately went to Father Anthony, revealed to him their attacks and their plan against him, and asked to become Christians. When he asked them about the day they practiced this work, he discovered that on that day he was a warrior with bitter thoughts. With this experience, Blessed Anthony confirmed and confirmed the idea that we said yesterday in our debate Demons cannot find entry into anyone's mind or... His body, and it has no power to control anyone’s soul unless it removes all sacred thoughts from it It makes it empty and lacking in spiritual contemplation.
It is appropriate for you to know that impure spirits obey humans in two ways:
Either by divine grace and the authority of the holiness of believers.
Or they may be captivated by the sacrifices of sinners and practice certain recitations as worshipers of devils.
The Pharisees were misled by a wrong understanding and imagined that the Lord the Savior gave orders to the demons in this way (witchcraft), when they said: “It is through Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons, who casts out demons.” This is consistent with that plan that they knew that their magicians and sorcerers - as they practiced recitations of Satan and offered him sacrifices with which he delights and rejoices - they become his servants to whom he grants authority even over the demons subject to him.
Chapter 20: Germanius asked about what was mentioned in the Book of Genesis Concerning the fallen angels if they had physical relations with people’s daughters (Genesis 6:2), and what is mentioned in the Bible about Satan is that he is a liar and the father of liars (John 8:44). What does he mean when he says he is the father of liars?
Chapter 21: Answer the previous two questions.
Father Serenus answered the previous two questions by saying:
[We cannot believe that these spiritual beings can have physical relations with women. If this could literally happen, why can't it happen now too, when we somehow don't see women getting pregnant by demons without having a physical relationship with men? Especially when it is clearly shown that demons find pleasure in arousing lust, which would certainly be better for them to achieve it directly through them than through men, if it were possible for them to practice it. As the Book of Ecclesiastes says: “What was made is what will be, and what was made is what is being made. For there is nothing new under the sun. If there is something to say about it: Look, this is new. For it was a long time ago, in the ages that were before us” (Ecclesiastes 1:9-10).
But the question that was raised can be solved in the following way: After the death of righteous Abel, in order for the entire human race not to emerge from the loins of a man who murdered his brother, Seth was born in place of his brother who killed (Abel) to take his place, not only in the matter of procreating generations, but also in the practice of justice and righteousness. . His descendants followed the example of their father’s goodness, and they always isolated themselves from entering into (marriage) relations with Cain. The difference between the two chains appeared in the genealogies as we were told clearly: “Adam begat Seth, Seth begat Enosh, Enosh begat Cainan, Cainan begat Mahalalel, Mahalaleel begat Jared, Jared begat Enoch, Enoch begat Methuselah, Methuselah begat Lamech, Lamech begat Noah” ( Genesis 5). The genealogy of Cain came separately: “Cain begat Enoch, and Enoch begat Irad (Cainan), and Erad begat Mehuiah, and Mehuiah begat Methuseel, and Methuseel begat Lamech, and Lamech begat Jabal and Jubal” (Genesis 4:17-21). Thus, the line of lineage stemming from the loins of the righteous Seth remained mixed with each other, continuing for a long period in the holiness of their fathers and ancestors, not coming into contact with the blasphemies and evils of the evil lineage implanted in it with the seed of sin, as if it were transmitted from the ancestors.
As long as this separation between the two lines remained: the seed of Seth, as if it came from an excellent root, was called because of his holiness “the angels of God,” or as some have copied it, “the sons of God” (Genesis 6:2 LXX). On the contrary, others were called, because of their evil, the evil of their fathers, and their earthly behavior, “daughters of men.”
Although there had been a holy and beneficial separation between them until this time, after that the sons of Seth, who were the sons of God, saw the daughters who were descendants of Cain, and lust was kindled in them because of their beauty, and they took them as wives. Wives taught their men the evil of their fathers, leading them away from the inherited holiness and simplicity of mind of their fathers. This saying applied to them with precision: “I said, ‘You are gods and sons of the Most High, all of you.’ But you will die like men and fall like one of the princes” (Psalm 82:6-7). These people fell from the true study of natural philosophy that they had received from their ancestors, as the first man (Adam) pursued the study of all nature and was able to obtain it clearly, and handed it on to his successor on sure foundations, and that is as much as the world saw at the beginning of its origins, when man was still in his tenderness. And his simplicity is like having in him not only the perfection of this wisdom, but also the grace of prophecy that was given to him by divine revelation, so that while he was living in this world uneducated, he gave names to all living creatures, and not only knew the venom of all kinds of animals and snakes and their venoms, but also distinguished between the types of plants and trees. And the nature of stones and the change of seasons that he had not yet experienced. He was able to say well: “The Lord has given me certain knowledge of beings, so that I may know the order of the world, the activity of the elements, the beginning and end of times and what is between them, the succession of the equinoxes and the change of the seasons, the circles of the year and the centers of the stars, the natures of animals and the instincts of beasts, the tones of souls and the thoughts of men, the types of plants and the properties of roots.” And I knew everything that was hidden and everything that was apparent” (Wisdom 7:17-21).
The descendants of Seth received this knowledge of all nature through the succession of generations that received it from their fathers, as long as the generations remained detached from the evil line, receiving it in holiness, and using it for the glory of God and to satisfy their daily needs.
But when it mixed with the evil generation, it withdrew towards the suggestions of the devils and corrupted their use in a harmful way. She lost the knowledge she had learned in innocence, and began to learn, with curiosity and unreasonable boldness, the arts of magic, recitations, and superstitions. Successive generations learned to abandon the holy worship of God, and to honor and prostrate themselves to the elements, fire, or the demons of the air.]
Father Serenus then narrates how the arts of magic and the worship of idols and demons were transmitted even after the flood through false marriages between the sons of God and the daughters of people.
Chapter 22Germanius’s objection to considering marriage between the sons of God from the lineage of Seth and the daughters of people from the lineage of Cain as a sin since there was no law prohibiting that.
Chapter 23Father Serenus explains that the natural law prevented this from the beginning, which is why they were subjected to punishment.
Chapter 24: Justly, the children of God who married the daughters of men fell into punishment, even though they had sinned before the flood.
Chapter 25Father Serenus explained the meaning of what was mentioned in the Gospel about Satan, that he is a liar and that he is the father of liars (John 8:44).
[It is ridiculous to imagine this (that Satan gives birth to children) even as a matter of curiosity. For, as we said a moment ago, souls do not give birth to souls, just as the soul cannot give birth to a soul. However, we do not doubt that the body, despite its small size, is part of the human seed. The Apostle clearly distinguishes between the two cases, that is, between the body and the spirit... “Then we had fathers who trained our flesh, and we revered them; Shall we not much more submit to the Father of spirits and live?!” (Hebrews 12:9). Nothing could be clearer than this distinction, which shows that men are the fathers of our bodies, but always teaches that God alone is the father of souls.
Although the minor matter of this body...is attributed to human beings, while the main part of human formation is formed by God, the Creator of all, David says: “Your hands created me and formed me” (Psalm 119:73). Blessed Job says: “Did you not pour me out like milk, and choose me like cheese, and cover me with skin and flesh, and knit me together with bones and sinews?” (Job 10:5,11). God says to Jeremiah: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you” (Jeremiah 1:5). But the Book of Ecclesiastes brings together with great clarity and natural accuracy the two elements, their beginning... and the end of each, separating the body from the soul by saying: “And the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 7:7).
Thus, when Satan was also created as a spirit, or a good angel, he had no father except God, his Creator. But when he was puffed up with pride and said in his heart: “I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High” (Isaiah 14:14), he became a liar and did not abide in the truth (John 7:44). Rather, he was born a liar from the stores of his evil. He became not only a liar, but the father of practical lying. When man promised divinity and said: “You will become like God,” Genesis 3:5, he did not remain in the truth. Rather, from the beginning, he was a murderer, bringing Adam to a state of death, and he killed Abel by the hand of his brother based on his suggestion.
[Footnote linked to the title] I hope that the Lord will allow us to publish the translation of this debate along with the rest of the texts of the writings of Saint John Cassian that have not yet been translated in another volume.
[1] The Shepherd of Hermas: K2 Commandment 6.